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	<title>Comments for Strengthened by Grace</title>
	<atom:link href="http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>"It is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace"</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Joy and a great Savior! by Gary Roberts</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/joy-and-a-great-savior/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=798#comment-853</guid>
		<description>Great reminders!  Thanks for the blog!

Gary Roberts
Authentic Churches
www.authenticchurches.wordpress.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great reminders!  Thanks for the blog!</p>
<p>Gary Roberts<br />
Authentic Churches<br />
<a href="http://www.authenticchurches.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.authenticchurches.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Things to be thankful for this week by Josh</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/things-to-be-thankful-for-this-week/#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=794#comment-850</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this, I think this should be a regular entry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this, I think this should be a regular entry!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Reflecting on John Edwards by beverlyk7</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/reflecting-on-john-edwards/#comment-830</link>
		<dc:creator>beverlyk7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=751#comment-830</guid>
		<description>One of the best posts I've ever read.  Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the best posts I&#8217;ve ever read.  Cheers!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quick takes New atheism, great book sale, Olympics by Samuel Skinner</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/quick-takes-new-atheism-great-book-sale-olympics/#comment-828</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=747#comment-828</guid>
		<description>Which no one can comment one... (Mohler's Blog)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which no one can comment one&#8230; (Mohler&#8217;s Blog)</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Lakeland revival&#8221;? &#8220;Toronto blessing&#8221;? by mikelynchblog</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/lakeland-revival-toronto-blessing/#comment-814</link>
		<dc:creator>mikelynchblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=468#comment-814</guid>
		<description>Hi Guys,
Unfortunately, Lakeland Florida will be another Toronto. No Fruit. Where is the Toronto church now ? It collapsed. Why ? It was based on error. One Minister I know of, who was a part of the team in Toronto has since repented of his ways &#38; his involved participation.  He described the church as carnal with the church disintergrating  as they became more &#38; more selfish, only wanting to be blessed. People were hungry for experience &#38; not for the Word.  Unfortunately, many people who are thirsty for God &#38; 'all things' of God will visit &#38; follow the events. These people are simply chasing signs.
Please listen to what is being 'preached'.  It is dubious at best &#38; goes against the nature &#38; character of God. There has been no medical evidence for any of the so-called major miracles &#38; any healing thus far says more for the grace of God than those involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Guys,<br />
Unfortunately, Lakeland Florida will be another Toronto. No Fruit. Where is the Toronto church now ? It collapsed. Why ? It was based on error. One Minister I know of, who was a part of the team in Toronto has since repented of his ways &amp; his involved participation.  He described the church as carnal with the church disintergrating  as they became more &amp; more selfish, only wanting to be blessed. People were hungry for experience &amp; not for the Word.  Unfortunately, many people who are thirsty for God &amp; &#8216;all things&#8217; of God will visit &amp; follow the events. These people are simply chasing signs.<br />
Please listen to what is being &#8216;preached&#8217;.  It is dubious at best &amp; goes against the nature &amp; character of God. There has been no medical evidence for any of the so-called major miracles &amp; any healing thus far says more for the grace of God than those involved.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gray areas and Christian liberty by strengthenedbygrace</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/gray-areas-and-christian-liberty/#comment-813</link>
		<dc:creator>strengthenedbygrace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=715#comment-813</guid>
		<description>I would say "not exactly."  For individual soul liberty is extended to every person whether or not they are a Christian.  For example, as Baptists we don't establish a state church which I know bleeds over into "separation of church and state." We believe that every person [soul] has the liberty to believe what he/she believes in religion as long as that belief doesn't infringe upon other rights [but I digress a bit]. But "Christian" liberty refers specifically to those who are "in Christ"--an issue Paul deals with in Romans 14-15.  Fine distinction, but one nonetheless I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say &#8220;not exactly.&#8221;  For individual soul liberty is extended to every person whether or not they are a Christian.  For example, as Baptists we don&#8217;t establish a state church which I know bleeds over into &#8220;separation of church and state.&#8221; We believe that every person [soul] has the liberty to believe what he/she believes in religion as long as that belief doesn&#8217;t infringe upon other rights [but I digress a bit]. But &#8220;Christian&#8221; liberty refers specifically to those who are &#8220;in Christ&#8221;&#8211;an issue Paul deals with in Romans 14-15.  Fine distinction, but one nonetheless I think.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gray areas and Christian liberty by Josh</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/gray-areas-and-christian-liberty/#comment-812</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=715#comment-812</guid>
		<description>So is Christian liberty and individual soul liberty the same thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is Christian liberty and individual soul liberty the same thing?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Back from the Rebelution by Hannah Michelle</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/back-from-the-rebelution/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannah Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 07:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=639#comment-808</guid>
		<description>It was a great conference, wasn't it? I was blessed to be there also and it's wonderful to hear how God is using Alex &#38; Brett to touch so many lives with this message!

Hehe, we have the same blog template. ;)

God bless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a great conference, wasn&#8217;t it? I was blessed to be there also and it&#8217;s wonderful to hear how God is using Alex &amp; Brett to touch so many lives with this message!</p>
<p>Hehe, we have the same blog template. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>God bless!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Thoughts on hell by Caron</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/thoughts-on-hell/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator>Caron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=656#comment-799</guid>
		<description>That's my pastor!

Dr. MacArthur also recommends the ministry of Justin Peters.  Mr. Peters spoke at my church on the health and wealth/prosperity gospel...  For a brief overview of his seminar you can visit his website at http://www.justinpeters.org and watch "demo."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s my pastor!</p>
<p>Dr. MacArthur also recommends the ministry of Justin Peters.  Mr. Peters spoke at my church on the health and wealth/prosperity gospel&#8230;  For a brief overview of his seminar you can visit his website at <a href="http://www.justinpeters.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.justinpeters.org</a> and watch &#8220;demo.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The church selling its &#8220;wares&#8221; by remnantvoice7</title>
		<link>http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/the-church-selling-its-wares/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>remnantvoice7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strengthenedbygrace.wordpress.com/?p=389#comment-798</guid>
		<description>Seeker Friendly "churches" are full of poison. The entire foundation that they are built upon is flawed. Once a "pastor" decides that he is going to transition "his" church after this model...look out, the changes are coming. As someone who has been in a Bible believing church that "transitioned" to attract the lost I can say first hand that the confusion this movement breeds and bringsclearly makes it a false gospel. Scripture is completely ignored by "leadership" and those who oppose or express concerns about their church being hijacked by seducing spirits and doctrines of devils are labeled as religous troublemakers who are stuck in the mud and hate change. The first thing you will notice is the changes in "how your church has church". The music is ALWAYS the first change. Now isn't that amazing? The very thing that Satan was trying to get from our Lord Jesus Christ in the wilderness was God's worship and that's the first thing this movement goes after. Puzzling isn't it?

Seeker Friendly churches/pastors are told that you have to use the kind of music that the target is used to hearing everyday. I thought God was the target of our Worship and not men. This confuses the beliver who is being bombarded by what he/she used to listen too. Even if this methology was true it still exposes another problem. By using music that targets a certain group,you are saying that they are exclusively who you are trying to "reach". The overwhelmingly majority of the music in this movement targets white affluent Americans. You thought they were trying to reach everybody right? Not so!

Other changes you will begin to notice over a period of time is a change in terminology. The unsaved, ungodly and unredemmed are redefined as "Unchurched". Conformity to the image of Christ is thrown out and cultural relevance is brought in. Multiple service times on the weekends because yuppies like having options to chose from. Your Sunday night and mid week service may become a thing of the past. You pastor will say it's so that you can have more family time but it's really not to interfere with the yuppie's busy schedule. A starbucks type coffee bar will be brought in and the foyers will begin to look less like a church. Anything that represents a visual distinction from the world and wll be removed to provide a non offensive atmosphere. At some point your pastor might use a laptop at the pulpit instead of a Bible because that's how he's been taught to connect with the corporate business minded target he is after. It's just a propt or visual aid like in a movie or show. The services will become very very short because the unchurched yuppie cannot endure long services. Funny, they have no problem watching a 3 hour NFL game, a long golf round, hours of television or movie theaters or hours of the home shopping network. How can God require them to sit in a long service, they have lives to live! The true Holy Spirit would NEVER stoop to such spiritual non sense. This movement is full of error!

This movement is also full of manipulation, intimidation, control and subtility. When a member of the congregation begins to express concerns about the changes in their church,they don't even know that their pastor has been trained by the church growth gurus in how to counter them.

They will sound so spiritual when they say things like..." the vision" or "God's vision for the house", and they will try and change the minds and convictions of the flock to get them on board. My post is not an attack on Pastors but it is an attack on this movement that is false doctrine and a false gospel. I have mentioned no names and no names of churches. Usually a combination of 3 things will happen when a congregation member expresses concern about this ungodly spirit of change in their church.
1.The pastor or leadership will attempt to get the member to embrace the changes. The pastor has made his mind up, sat in meetings and considered the cost and has determined he is transitioning "his" church with you or without you.
2. You are either going to embrace the changes or begin to pray and seek God about leaving. If the Lord directs you to leave you will be confronted by that church with...this is your covering you cannot leave or you need to submit to delegated authority. If you are at a place where you notice changes in your church play time is over and this is serious. You must pray and stay in the word because you know the truth now. Don't let anything or anyone pull you away from the Lord, the Word and prayer. The startling thing about "covering" is this. If you initially came there from another church why didn't they tell you to go back to your "covering"? But now it's time to move on somewhere else and......that's a problem for them. It affects the numbers which is the chief motivator of those who let thismovement into their churches.
3. Something is going to happen. Either the pastor is going to be awaken by the Lord and get the movement out, you are going to change and become part of it or you are going to leave. The people that trained the pastors in this movement also trained them how to deal with opposition. If he is determined to go the way he is going and you are determined to stand with God and the truth, there will be a confrontation. Once they see you will not change and give up your beliefs(that were engraved in you by the Holy Spirit) they are going to kick you out. The same people who told you in previous steps that you could not leave because they were your covering will now tell you you have to leave. When you pray and research this movement and test it with scripture you must conclude that it is the working of deceiving spirits. It is our Heavely Father who convicts and draws men to  Jesus Christs for repentance and conversion not our marketing gimmicks or latest trends. Shame on the American Church!

Prior to entering the ministry men must spend time in God's school of hard knocks. It's called the wilderness. It's in this place that we die to self, ungodly ambition, and the unquenchable thirst to be one of the "Big Don's" of modern day ministry. The wilderness is a place of stripping and filling and a place of preparation. Jesus had a wilderness, Paul had a wilderness, Moses had a wilderness and even Elijah had to learn dependence upon God when his brookdried up. The American Gospel of Accomodation is the only place where it seems more energy is spent trying to avoid God's place of preparation than just surrenduring and letting Him have His way in us and through us.

My heart grieves at what I see happening to God's people. The Apostasy is here! We must pray that God will raise up men and provide his people with true shepards who will love them and protect them from error regardless of personal cost. When the remnant begins to leave these modern day so called "churches" they must have somewhere to go and not become spiritually homeless or worse go back to the house of compromise and carnality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeker Friendly &#8220;churches&#8221; are full of poison. The entire foundation that they are built upon is flawed. Once a &#8220;pastor&#8221; decides that he is going to transition &#8220;his&#8221; church after this model&#8230;look out, the changes are coming. As someone who has been in a Bible believing church that &#8220;transitioned&#8221; to attract the lost I can say first hand that the confusion this movement breeds and bringsclearly makes it a false gospel. Scripture is completely ignored by &#8220;leadership&#8221; and those who oppose or express concerns about their church being hijacked by seducing spirits and doctrines of devils are labeled as religous troublemakers who are stuck in the mud and hate change. The first thing you will notice is the changes in &#8220;how your church has church&#8221;. The music is ALWAYS the first change. Now isn&#8217;t that amazing? The very thing that Satan was trying to get from our Lord Jesus Christ in the wilderness was God&#8217;s worship and that&#8217;s the first thing this movement goes after. Puzzling isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Seeker Friendly churches/pastors are told that you have to use the kind of music that the target is used to hearing everyday. I thought God was the target of our Worship and not men. This confuses the beliver who is being bombarded by what he/she used to listen too. Even if this methology was true it still exposes another problem. By using music that targets a certain group,you are saying that they are exclusively who you are trying to &#8220;reach&#8221;. The overwhelmingly majority of the music in this movement targets white affluent Americans. You thought they were trying to reach everybody right? Not so!</p>
<p>Other changes you will begin to notice over a period of time is a change in terminology. The unsaved, ungodly and unredemmed are redefined as &#8220;Unchurched&#8221;. Conformity to the image of Christ is thrown out and cultural relevance is brought in. Multiple service times on the weekends because yuppies like having options to chose from. Your Sunday night and mid week service may become a thing of the past. You pastor will say it&#8217;s so that you can have more family time but it&#8217;s really not to interfere with the yuppie&#8217;s busy schedule. A starbucks type coffee bar will be brought in and the foyers will begin to look less like a church. Anything that represents a visual distinction from the world and wll be removed to provide a non offensive atmosphere. At some point your pastor might use a laptop at the pulpit instead of a Bible because that&#8217;s how he&#8217;s been taught to connect with the corporate business minded target he is after. It&#8217;s just a propt or visual aid like in a movie or show. The services will become very very short because the unchurched yuppie cannot endure long services. Funny, they have no problem watching a 3 hour NFL game, a long golf round, hours of television or movie theaters or hours of the home shopping network. How can God require them to sit in a long service, they have lives to live! The true Holy Spirit would NEVER stoop to such spiritual non sense. This movement is full of error!</p>
<p>This movement is also full of manipulation, intimidation, control and subtility. When a member of the congregation begins to express concerns about the changes in their church,they don&#8217;t even know that their pastor has been trained by the church growth gurus in how to counter them.</p>
<p>They will sound so spiritual when they say things like&#8230;&#8221; the vision&#8221; or &#8220;God&#8217;s vision for the house&#8221;, and they will try and change the minds and convictions of the flock to get them on board. My post is not an attack on Pastors but it is an attack on this movement that is false doctrine and a false gospel. I have mentioned no names and no names of churches. Usually a combination of 3 things will happen when a congregation member expresses concern about this ungodly spirit of change in their church.<br />
1.The pastor or leadership will attempt to get the member to embrace the changes. The pastor has made his mind up, sat in meetings and considered the cost and has determined he is transitioning &#8220;his&#8221; church with you or without you.<br />
2. You are either going to embrace the changes or begin to pray and seek God about leaving. If the Lord directs you to leave you will be confronted by that church with&#8230;this is your covering you cannot leave or you need to submit to delegated authority. If you are at a place where you notice changes in your church play time is over and this is serious. You must pray and stay in the word because you know the truth now. Don&#8217;t let anything or anyone pull you away from the Lord, the Word and prayer. The startling thing about &#8220;covering&#8221; is this. If you initially came there from another church why didn&#8217;t they tell you to go back to your &#8220;covering&#8221;? But now it&#8217;s time to move on somewhere else and&#8230;&#8230;that&#8217;s a problem for them. It affects the numbers which is the chief motivator of those who let thismovement into their churches.<br />
3. Something is going to happen. Either the pastor is going to be awaken by the Lord and get the movement out, you are going to change and become part of it or you are going to leave. The people that trained the pastors in this movement also trained them how to deal with opposition. If he is determined to go the way he is going and you are determined to stand with God and the truth, there will be a confrontation. Once they see you will not change and give up your beliefs(that were engraved in you by the Holy Spirit) they are going to kick you out. The same people who told you in previous steps that you could not leave because they were your covering will now tell you you have to leave. When you pray and research this movement and test it with scripture you must conclude that it is the working of deceiving spirits. It is our Heavely Father who convicts and draws men to  Jesus Christs for repentance and conversion not our marketing gimmicks or latest trends. Shame on the American Church!</p>
<p>Prior to entering the ministry men must spend time in God&#8217;s school of hard knocks. It&#8217;s called the wilderness. It&#8217;s in this place that we die to self, ungodly ambition, and the unquenchable thirst to be one of the &#8220;Big Don&#8217;s&#8221; of modern day ministry. The wilderness is a place of stripping and filling and a place of preparation. Jesus had a wilderness, Paul had a wilderness, Moses had a wilderness and even Elijah had to learn dependence upon God when his brookdried up. The American Gospel of Accomodation is the only place where it seems more energy is spent trying to avoid God&#8217;s place of preparation than just surrenduring and letting Him have His way in us and through us.</p>
<p>My heart grieves at what I see happening to God&#8217;s people. The Apostasy is here! We must pray that God will raise up men and provide his people with true shepards who will love them and protect them from error regardless of personal cost. When the remnant begins to leave these modern day so called &#8220;churches&#8221; they must have somewhere to go and not become spiritually homeless or worse go back to the house of compromise and carnality.</p>
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